Started by Furwerkstudio, 27 Mar 2021, 16:41
Quote from: Cassiebsg on 27 Mar 2021, 19:35I'm amazed... that people PAY money to ask these guys questions!
Quote from: Cassiebsg on 28 Mar 2021, 11:14This was the exact reason why I never played Back to The future, when I was so eager to after finding out there was a 4 episode game... even though I selected the "no tutorial/no hints", the game was still telling me "go there, look at that..." yadayadayada... I got even more annoyed, when I found out that no matter what I choose as a reply during the intro, the game would reply and continue as if I had chosen "the correct" answer... if you going to give the player 4 options of dialogue during an intro sequence, the least you could do was alter the intro/reply slightly... running the exact same answer makes this dialogue option useless.
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 28 Mar 2021, 12:36I inflicted myself the video. There is nothing new in what they say. Do they think they are the first ones to criticize that "yeah some old adventure games were too complicated and illogical, brute force, too hard", blabla? That was literaly everything told in a seminal article published in 2000: https://www.oldmanmurray.com/features/77.htmlEveryone has read this article already. More than 20 years ago.Type "how adventure games died" in a search engine. Count how many people wrote long essays about the genre.And there we have two guys who spent over an hour repeating what everyone has been debating for two decades. They are 20 years late to this.He calls his video "the state of the genre in 2021" and he uses Day of the Tentacle to illustrate it, a game made in the 1990s. That would be interesting if he were pointing out what I personally think is the biggest problem of the genre in 2021 (the fact that too many people are fixated on old games) but he does not. He just has no idea what happens in 2021 so he talks about the genre as if we were still the day after Grim Fandango was first published.
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 28 Mar 2021, 22:30And here is something I learnt when I published novels: a good critic never writes a negative critic unless the target is a big one. Here is a personal story: I published my first novel and it ended up with a positive review by a TV host. So of course when I published the second one I sent it to him in hope he would do it again. He answered me that he did not like the book. So of course I started being afraid he would tear it apart on TV. He did not. I asked him why. He said because I'm a young author barely known by anyone, if he tears me apart he looks like a jerk who uses his influence to crush others for his own glory. I found that interesting so I pushed the conversation further. We looked at a review my first novel had in a newspaper, a review that was also positive, and he showed me the review just next to it: the critic had panned another book, but it was written by one of the very top authors in my country, someone famous and praised on every level. This guy was worth a bad review because he's a big shot, it's actually brave to challenge his position and say something negative about him because he would have fans who would attack you, and he probably needed a bit of humility. But me, I was too small to warrant a bad review, if he doesn't like my book he just needs to stay silent about it and no one will buy it anyway, there is no need to put me down.I always remembered that story because it is the whole difference between making a bad review so you can look clever and making a bad review that actually makes sense. This is why I am vocal about disliking Thimbleweed Park, it's a big successful game made by a successful person who could use some humility. I played indie games I did not like but what is the point of letting everyone know, when the devs are already struggling?
Quote from: Furwerkstudio on 27 Mar 2021, 16:41My take, it doing good for a niche market. It's pretty easy for new players to get into, "easy"* for new developers to cut their teeth on along with visual novels, and let's be honest many point and click games tend to good for older machines and laptops.*Relatively speaking.
Quote from: Furwerkstudio on 28 Mar 2021, 00:40I'll be blunt, he is not the best person to talk about game mechanics or puzzles because I remember playing 5 Days A Stranger and it's sequels, and the puzzles felt so "moon logical"
Quote from: Danvzare on 29 Mar 2021, 17:06Quote from: Furwerkstudio on 27 Mar 2021, 16:41My take, it doing good for a niche market. It's pretty easy for new players to get into, "easy"* for new developers to cut their teeth on along with visual novels, and let's be honest many point and click games tend to good for older machines and laptops.*Relatively speaking.That's the most sensible take I've ever heard on the state of Point and Click Adventure games, and I agree wholeheartedly.
Quote from: Hobo on 29 Mar 2021, 19:51I value story, exploration and character interactions more than puzzles, so I'm perfectly fine with narrative-heavy games with light gameplay elements.
QuoteThis is ultimately the biggest problems: the tons and tons of games that are so easy they are forgettable.QuoteI have a felling, that if I ever get the chance to play your games, I'll love them.
QuoteI have a felling, that if I ever get the chance to play your games, I'll love them.
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 29 Mar 2021, 22:56And this is exactly what is wrong with the genre in 2021: the assumption that story and gameplay are mutually exclusive.
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 29 Mar 2021, 22:56This is ultimately the biggest problems: the tons and tons of games that are so easy they are forgettable.
Quote from: Ali on 29 Mar 2021, 00:19In my opinion, adventure games between 2000-2010 were mostly bad, retaining all the awful features of 90s adventure games and almost none of the good qualities.
Quote from: Chomba on 29 Mar 2021, 18:22Deponia is a franchise that has three entries
Quote from: Hobo on 29 Mar 2021, 19:51I'm not overly familiar with the modern adventure game scene outside of the AGS community
Quote from: Hobo on 30 Mar 2021, 12:28Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 29 Mar 2021, 22:56And this is exactly what is wrong with the genre in 2021: the assumption that story and gameplay are mutually exclusive.Yes, I agree, they're not mutually exclusive, but I assume it would take more talent, experience and resources to successfully merge narrative and gameplay. And this is not specific to the point & click genre, most games, even the critically acclaimed big budget ones, have serious difficulties with that.I also don't think it's inherently right or wrong, it can simply be a different approach to making games. I mean, if these are the types of games people want to make and there are people like me, who enjoy playing those, then is that wrong? It's unfortunate to hear that there aren't enough games that suit your taste, but hopefully there'll be more in the future.
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 31 Mar 2021, 06:13Oh don't get me wrong, sorry if it sounded like I was having a go at you, for sure everyone can enjoy what they want I still think even you would find enjoyment in a game that gives you the narrative you appreciate while taking you into a good gameplay.
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 31 Mar 2021, 06:13That's what I think: movies are good even if they are passive, but then if we make a videogame instead of a movie there has to be a reason why, and that reason is that it's interactive
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 31 Mar 2021, 06:13If the puzzle is badly made then the solution is to make better puzzles! I am sorry to see you have been confronted to so many bad puzzles that you have grown a distaste for them...
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 31 Mar 2021, 06:13 It is playing them and guiding them through the challenge that makes you care for them and experience their plight.
Quote from: FormosaFalanster on 31 Mar 2021, 06:13I think it is also very important to get out of AGS and see other narrative games out there.
Quote from: eri0o on 30 Mar 2021, 15:51Not sure if modern, but a different community at least, TIG Source is a bit dead nowadays but the devlogs are still going strong...
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